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Looking for girlfriend > 50 years > How do you say my husband in venda

How do you say my husband in venda

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This important study in ethnomusicology is an attempt by the author -- a musician who has become a social anthropologist -- to compare his experiences of music-making in different cultures. He is here presenting new information resulting from his research into African music, especially among the Venda. Venda music, he discovered is in its way no less complex in structure than European music. Literacy and the invention of nation may generate extended musical structures, but they express differences of degree, and not the difference in kind that is implied by the distinction between 'art' and 'folk' music. Many, if not all, of music's essential processes may be found in the constitution of the human body and in patterns of interaction of human bodies in society.



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John Barnes justified his critical review of the Murngin controversy not only in terms of the "attractive and exciting intellectual challenge" provided by the material, but also because "this history provides us with an embarrassingly rich store of well documented analytical mistakes made by anthropologists The Venda have not achieved the academic celebrity of the Murngin, and, fortunately, the Venda sources are reasonably detailed and consistent, so providing, in principle, less scope for creative fantasy.

None the less, in company with the Lovedu and the Tsonga Junod's "Thonga" , the Venda threaten to become one of the crucial problem cases in African kinship studies. Scholars of various theoretical persuasions have identified aspects of the Venda system as in some way unique, transitional, or peculiarly problematic.

My view is that, on the contrary, a properly contextualised analysis would reveal that the Venda have a typically Southern African kinship system. I shall take another opportunity to argue that case in detail, however, for my present preoccupation is more methodological.

Using the Venda debate as a case study, I shall try to indicate the necessity for conducting analysis in the context of an informed regional structural comparison see Kuper In his well-known monograph on the Venda, Stayt — blinded in action during the First World War, but despite his handicap a formidable ethnographer — drew attention to three issues which have recurred in debates on the Venda material.

The first issue was raised in relation to the kinship terminology. Stayt explained. L'Homme, janv. In the same year, but working independently, Van Warmelo published an account of Venda kinship terminology, and commented upon the terminological identification of WM and MBW. This was to be understood in terms of the preference for marriage with a mother's brother's daughter Van Warmelo These terminological identifications have been explained by later writers in similar fashion.

His explanation for this was bizarre, but not so bizarre that it may be counted unique in africanist anthropology see, e. The claim over his wife's brother is then transferred to his wife's brother's daughter, whom he calls by the same term that would have been applied to his wife's brother if he had been a woman" Stayt : The "explanation" has been ignored, but the paradox of WBD marriage in a society with a pronounced preference for MBD marriage has again been a recurrent theme.

Thirdly, Stayt argued that the Venda have a system of double unilineal descent. This would indeed make the Venda unique in Southern Africa. No later writers have questioned this supposition, but only G. These puzzles and solutions might be ignored as inconsequential, except that they have suddenly achieved a certain prominence, in a debate between two distinguished professional anthropologists.

De Heusch argued, in a paper published in , that the Lovedu and Tsonga represent two poles of a transformation of immense significance.

The Lovedu, with an elementary kinship structure, are neighbours of a society, the Tsonga, "where the elementary structures which call for one or the other form of marriage with the cross-cousin hinge with the complex structures which do not permit this primary union" De Heusch The Tsonga, en route to a complex structure, represent an incomplete transformation, an incompleteness signalled by the existence of two secondary and oblique unions, with the WBD and the widow of the mother's brother, and by the aggressive joking relationship with the mother's brother.

I am not immediately interested in evaluating this assessment of the Tsonga see Kuper, forthcoming. The relevance of De Heusch's paper is that Adler has challenged his analysis by invoking the Venda case.

The Venda, like their neighbours the Lovedu, prescribe matrilateral cross-cousin marriage. However, Adler argued, they exhibited precisely those Tsonga traits which De Heusch had attributed to the abandonment of matrilateral cross-cousin marriage by the Tsonga.

Thus they had an Omaha kinship terminology, they permitted marriage with the WBD, and men joked with their mother's brothers. De Heusch, responding, objected to some aspects of Adler's argument but by implication at least accepted the picture of the Venda sketched by Adler. Conceding the critical significance of the Venda case, De Heusch suggested that the Venda represent a stage intermediate between the Lovedu and the Tsonga Adler ; De Heusch Oddly enough, the debate at this point comes full circle.

Half a century ago, Junod distinguished two types of kinship system in Southern Africa. He suggested that this anomaly was a consequence of the fact that the Venda system "contains elements of another origin", which he took to be Kalanga Junod , 1: Shortly afterwards, Eiselen argued that. The Venda and Swazi alone represented an intermediate stage, in which both possibilities existed.

One might argue that Junod, Eiselen and De Heusch have, over a period of half a century, advanced substantially the same hypothesis, in which the Venda play a similar intermediate role, though their explanations were couched respectively in terms of a diffusionist, evolutionist, and structuralist transformation. The ingenuity expended on the Venda materials has produced a variety of more or less daring and elegant hypotheses. I shall attempt to show that these explain the known in terms of the unlikely, or, in more extreme cases, the nonexistent in terms of the hypothetical.

This rather melancholy exercise will clear the ground for a fresh approach, but, more immediately, it will serve to point my methodological moral. The facts. Given the detailed and reliable ethnographies published by Stayt and by Van Warmelo and Phophi2, as well as other, lesser but often helpful reports, one might assume that at least the facts of the matter are beyond question — and, indeed, controversy has emerged over explanations rather than facts.

It is therefore of particular interest to reexamine the ethnographic assumptions which recur in the theoretical debate. I list them as a series of questions and deal with them in order: a Do the Venda have a system of double descent?

Stayt's judgement that the Venda had a double descent system whatever. Yet the relevant passages in the ethnography are terse and suggest various doubts. Stayt's description, in full, is as follows :. This group has a particular significance for the individual, exerting a stronger emotional and personal influence than the more formal patrilineal group. It consists of the mother, her brothers and sisters, her children and the children of her sisters but not those of her brothers , the children of their daughters and so on, and all the ancestors in the matrilineal line.

The functions of this group partly explain the peculiar relationship between a man and his mother's brother, particularly in religious affairs. As its importance is essentially linked with the ancestor cult, it will be more fully discussed in that connection. Turning to the description of the ancestor cult, however, one learns little. The ancestor cult involves a sacred black bull, the symbol of the paternal grandfather and perhaps other patrilineal ancestors.

An associated cult revolves around a sacred black she-goat, "essentially feminine", which represents. Stayt relates this cultic division to the notion that a person inherits flesh and blood in the female line, and bones and sensory organs in the male line, and concludes:. Clearly there is a dual organization of spirits, incorporating a distinction between male and female spirits, and these spirits are related genealogically to living people, as in ancestor worship.

Also, each cult has a differently organized congregation. Details are scarce here, but when the female goat is eventually replaced if possible by its kid , the ceremony is attended by "all the members of the mother's group" ibid. This does not add up to what contemporary anthropologists would normally describe as double descent, and one can find. Moreover, although a patrilineal principle is clearly operative in ordering residence, succession and inheritance, and weak patricians exist, there seem to be no developed patrilineages.

No other ethnographer provides further details which might strengthen the case for assuming that a double descent system exists, and Stayt himself suggests no links between this system and the kinship terminology or rules of marriage — or indeed any aspect of kinship organization per se.

I take the sensible methodological conclusion to be that commentators should appeal to Venda "matriliny" or "double descent" only with great caution. This would certainly qualify the Venda to be Africa's Murngin or Miwok. It is apparent, however, that we are dealing with a legal fiction.

A man must provide bridewealth to procure one wife for the eldest son of each of his own wives. The woman married with bridewealth provided by a man's father, his dzekiso wife, becomes his great wife, and the heir is chosen from her "house". This odd arrangement persists only until the final marriage rite is performed, after which the girl takes up residence with her husband.

Stayt commented :. Van Warmelo's picture is similar. He adds that all the girls of the bride's party are mmane to the groom until the marriage ceremonies have been completed, but notes that a man may continue in some circumstances to refer to his wife as mmane until his father is dead.

It was formerly the custom in some families for the father or elder brother, if he provided the bridewealth to sleep with the new bride for a few nights before handing her over to her husband, since, as the Venda put it, "a child cannot open a cattle kraal" ibid. Both Stayt and Van Warmelo agree that the terminological identification of a wife as mother's co-wife is temporary, and that it is subsidiary to a more conventional notion that a woman really is married to her husband.

The identification is a way of expressing the relationship between the girl and her parents, on the one hand, and the person who provided bridewealth for her on the other. Van Warmelo pointed out that where a man provides bridewealth for a younger. Similarly, where a woman provides her son with the bridewealth he needs to acquire a wife, the wife termed tshiozwi "female owned" is called "mother-in-law" by her co-wives.

Thus, for example, my wife's brother is "really" my father's wife's brother, and hence my mother's brother. This is far-fetched, unnecessary, and raises more problems than it appears to resolve, as I shall attempt to demonstrate later.

It is apparent, therefore, that a right to the WBD runs counter to a right to the MBD; at least, if these rights are unequivocal. The Venda have a strong preference for MBD marriage, including under this head marriage with a MBSD "and in fact all those girls of his maternal uncle's family lushaka whose fathers his mother calls 'brother' or 'brother's son'" Venda Law, I: This preference does not, however, amount to a "prescription".

Mother's sister's daughters are unmarriageable, but aristocrats as amongst other Southern Bantu peoples also favour marriage with patrilateral cross- and parallel cousins, and even half-sisters.

Such marriages are permitted to commoners, but rarely occur, and there are ideological objections to them Venda Law, I: ; Stayt ; Lestrade In addition, men have a claim upon certain female relatives of their wives. According to Stayt 1: :. If he consents to 'untie' his sister-in-law she may marry elsewhere.

He may only marry his wife's brother's daughter when there are no sisters-in-law available. Such claims are not recognized by the courts Venda Law, II: It seems reasonable to conclude, with Junod, that WBD marriage, while permissible, is infrequent, and that "the Vendas definitely belong to the category of tribes where it is the son who marries his cousin and not the father his niece" , I:.

Adler is therefore clearly overstating the case when he writes that among. See Preston- Whyte She assumes the ideal Venda marriage to be one in which a man marries, as his great wife, his MBD, who is then by the fiction discussed earlier also his father's wife. Several authors have attempted to explain other elements of the kinship system, and particularly aspects of the kinship terminology, by invoking this claim on the WBD.

It is clear, however, that this claim is not stressed ideologically, is rarely exercised, is not legally enforced, and must be seen only as a possible guarantee, or substitute, should a man's wife have no sisters. It is unlikely that such a marginal aspect of the system causes other aspects. The apparent incompatibility of "claims" on the WBD and on the MBD also becomes less problematic once the restricted nature of the claims is recognized.

This is important, because in De Heusch's theory a joking relationship with the mother's brother signals the abandonment of a marriage claim on the MBD De Heusch De Heusch 43 accepts this.

However, the weight of the evidence is quite unequivocal. Stayt 1: wrote:.

Useful phrases in Venda (Tshivenḓa)

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Translate "happy birthday" into Venda (tshivenḓa)

Account Options Sign in. My library Help Advanced Book Search. Get print book. University of Chicago Press Amazon. Shop for Books on Google Play Browse the world's largest eBookstore and start reading today on the web, tablet, phone, or ereader. John Blacking. University of Chicago Press , - Music - pages. This series of essays and articles on the music of the Venda people of the northern Transvaal in South Africa constitutes his major scholarly legacy.

Tshivenḓa Language

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Good day, I am a Swahili speaking and would like to know how to communicate in Tshivenda. Would appreciate any assistance.

John Barnes justified his critical review of the Murngin controversy not only in terms of the "attractive and exciting intellectual challenge" provided by the material, but also because "this history provides us with an embarrassingly rich store of well documented analytical mistakes made by anthropologists The Venda have not achieved the academic celebrity of the Murngin, and, fortunately, the Venda sources are reasonably detailed and consistent, so providing, in principle, less scope for creative fantasy. None the less, in company with the Lovedu and the Tsonga Junod's "Thonga" , the Venda threaten to become one of the crucial problem cases in African kinship studies.

I love you so much in Tshivenda

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A collection of useful phrases in Venda, a Bantu language spoken in parts of South Africa and Zimbabwe. See these phrases in any combination of two languages in the Phrase Finder. If you can provide recordings, corrections or additional translations, please contact me. If you would like to make any corrections or additions to this page, or if you can provide recordings, please contact me. Information about Venda Phrases Tower of Babel.

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Comments: 4
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  2. Tojalkis

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  4. Gagami

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